News & Podcasts

The Whole Marketer Podcast – Episode 152

Jul 28, 2025

Episode #152. Today’s focus is a technical skill on advertising – specifically the significant implications of uninspired advertising and how to overcome dullness in your work. 

Abby’s guest expert is Adam Morgan, legendary marketing strategist, speaker, podcast host and author of Eating The Big Fish (which first popularised the term challenger brands some 20 years ago). As founder and partner of Eat Big Fish, an international consultancy that specializes in bringing a challenger mindset to client problems in the area of strategy, culture and innovation, he is passionate about helping brands overcome mediocrity. His latest project, The Extraordinary Cost of Dull, a collaboration with Peter Field, Jon Evans and Dr Karen Nelson-Field, delves into just how costly it is for brand owners and marketers to be dull. In his podcast entitled ‘Let’s make this more Interesting’ Adam speaks to fascinating people who excel at engaging their audience. 

In this episode, Adam shares the background to his ‘cost of dull’ project and research showing that dull campaigns require higher media spend to achieve results. He discusses the reasons why dullness persists, five key questions to help marketers create more engaging, distinctive work, and embracing the mindset of a challenger. 

Plus, his career highs and lows and advice for marketers of tomorrow. 

00:00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Advertising and the ‘Cost of Dull’ project 

00:03:19 Defining the Cost of Dull  

00:04:39 Dullness as Exclusion & Societal Impact  

00:06:33 Why Tackle Dullness 

00:10:57 Prioritizing Where to Be Interesting Framework  

00:13:30 Findings from the ‘Cost of Dull’ Research  

00:18:24 Why Dullness Persists: The Five Drivers  

00:25:52 How to Avoid Being Dull 

00:26:20 The Five Questions to Ensure Engaging and Effective Communication. 

00:38:31Challenger Brands Mindset  

00:42:31 Career Highs and Lows 

00:45:04 Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow  

 

Links

Lets Make This More Interesting — eatbigfish. 

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