Episode #1: In this episode, Abby discusses the soft skill of Resilience for marketers with the awesome human Alice Ter Haar – People Strategy & Development Manager at Deliveroo and founder of Bad Ass Unicorn personal development.
Join their uplifting conversation where Alice shares her 5 pillars of resilience, plus the importance of knowing your values to increase your resilience and fulfilment in these uncertain times.
Resources/brands mentioned in this podcast:
www.deliveroo.co.uk
Bad Ass Unicorn
The Chimp Paradox by Professor Steve Peters
www.themarketingacademy.org
Sponsored by Labyrinth Marketing
FULL TRANSCRIPT (with timecode)
00:00:00:09 – 00:00:08:22
So Hello and welcome to the Whole Marketer podcast.
00:00:09:12 – 00:00:27:06
Today we are joined by our special guests Alice Ter Haar. And our topic for today’s conversation is resilience. I wanted to cover resilience maybe even first as our first podcast as well, obviously, it’s covid-19 times.
00:00:27:16 – 00:00:52:15
And I think we’re having to be more resilient than we’ve ever been. Whether that’s working at home working in new conditions or not working at all. Trying to overcome the worry of that as well as in day to day life as a marketer. We generally have to have high level of resilience as things are ever changing whether that’s in the business or in our teams or maybe even just in conflict or areas that we have with other functions.
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And so, what I’m going to quickly do is introduce our guests Alice then I will hand over to her so she can tell us all about the world of resilience.
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But just to introduce. Alice is our guest today, so, she is the person behind the brand at Deliveroo.
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She works as the personal Strategy and development manager, and she’s also founder of her side hustle Bad ass Unicorn. I first came across Alice on the wonderful world that is ‘Linked-in’. She just stood out to me. I don’t know if it was because of her love of developing people or because she called her business Bad ass Unicorn. But either way I couldn’t help but follow her.
00:01:33:08 – 00:01:53:17
So I am ecstatic to have her as our first guest on the Whole Marketer podcast and what I found fascinating about Alice is actually even though she’s doing a personal strategy development role in Deliveroo she is a marketeer who’s crossed over into the area of personal development. So, I would like to welcome you to the show Alice.
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Thank you very much Abby so lovely to be here. Thank you.
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Perfect. So tell us tell us about your journey as a marketer that’s got into the world and fell in love with personal development.
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Okay so yeah as you said I spent my first ten years of my career working in marketing roles.
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And I’ve got a bit of a potted background so I sort of working in a start-up for this cool photographer very unglamorous role at first of getting the coffees head of FedEx doing the invoicing and then I really grew with the business start running his exhibitions and his PR and all of that fun stuff.
00:02:29:09 – 00:03:03:12
And I did that for about three years headed then to a marketing agency specialising in partnerships loved like working as part of a marketing team brainstorms with like my favourite thing in the whole entire world as well as drinks at 5:00 on a Friday. I had an absolute gas at that agency, but I think I did this exercise when I was about 23/24. My favourite personal development tip which is about defining your North star vision. And when I did that I realized that what I really wanted to do in 10years-time at that point in my life was to become a head of Marketing and I wanted to do that like a cool brand.
00:03:03:14 – 00:03:46:08
And so I sort of looked at myself in that moment I said okay well if I want that to be true what would I need to do now to help me to get there. And I thought well I better spend some time client side if I want to be a client-side marketer and I better expand my specialism away from just partnerships and look at other channels as well. And grow in that. So then I went to Whitbread and I was marketing manager of Beefeater restaurants Beefeater restaurants not the really cool gin the restaurants that you find at the corner of the premier in on the motorway. And that was where I really developed a love of food from there, I went to Deliveroo. It was a really wonderful moment when I got that job spec through from the head-hunter four years ago and I was like oh my god this sounds just brilliant.
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You know when you have that guttural reaction like I want this I want it so much and I was lucky enough to get it.
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And I’ve been there for the past four years moved from a marketing role in November because I discovered this incredible thing personal development which we’ll talk a little bit more about I’m sure.
00:04:03:02 – 00:04:33:28
And I realised that as much as I loved marketing and I think there’s lots of transferable skills from marketing, I treat the employee like a consumer would like you do a consumer when you’re in marketing for example and like comms and emotional intelligence and all of that good stuff that you need as a marketer. I then transferred over to the people side of things because I realized that that was really where my passion was really where I added value where my super strengths lay and sort of facilitation and course design and all of that kind of thing.
00:04:34:13 – 00:04:56:01
And I’ve been doing that ever since. So, for about eight months and as of tomorrow actually I’ll be going on furlough for a couple of months and then I will be taking voluntary redundancy and looking at what the future holds for Bad ass Unicorn and all the opportunities that that will hopefully encourage.
00:04:56:06 – 00:04:59:08
So yeah that’s a bit of a history of me.
00:04:59:20 – 00:05:14:19
That’s awesome. And you know I completely relate with what you’re saying about the crossover of understanding you know as you know I’m in the process of writing my book and you know the third unit is all about the understanding about you as a human.
00:05:14:21 – 00:05:50:04
And the second unit is about the understanding of consumers and really getting into the skin of who they are and having empathy and curiosity about them and that human behaviour and there is just so much overlap between those two areas.
And that’s so much of what badass unicorn is inspired by it’s like what can we learn from these businesses about how they market themselves about how they find their purpose about what their unique strengths and opposition is and how can we take those clearly very relevant and effective principles and apply them to our own development so that we can do brilliant things just like some of these businesses do.
Completely.
00:05:50:06 – 00:05:59:24
So tell me more tell me more about why you started Bad ass Unicorn. Initially your side hustle and soon to become your day to day the hustle hustle the hustle hustle.
00:05:59:29 – 00:06:38:20
I guess it’s probably worth just taking a step back to where my personal development journey started. So actually when I was at Whitbread I tried for a marketing scholarship. It’s called the marketing Academy.
Sherrilyn Sherrilyn Exactly.
And it’s a free nine-month program pretty difficult to get on to. And I didn’t get on first time round when I didn’t get on first time round I was obviously pretty gutted but the whole process of applying have been very reflective and very sort of formative and that was really my first foray into personal development because I kind of feedback on board about why I hadn’t gone in and they talked a lot about kind of needing to find myself a little bit more.
00:06:38:22 – 00:06:51:21
And so that was when I first was introducing this concept of personal development and I read the Chimp Paradox and I went on a few courses and actually Whitbread is really good at investing in its people and they did some leadership courses they invested in a career coach for me as well.
00:06:51:23 – 00:06:57:15
So, I was really lucky, and I was just like gee whiz this personal development thing is cool.
00:06:57:17 – 00:07:29:23
Yeah.
Why don’t more people know about it, and then when I as part of that whole journey of figuring myself out well I was at Whitbread. That was what really gave me the assurance that when the Deliveroo job came up that I knew that was the job for me because I’ve done a lot of exploration into what kind of environments do I thrive in and what kind of business do I want to work in I’d really figured out that I enjoyed food. So, then I was really confident about the move over to Deliveroo. Anyway, I then got onto the marketing Academy scholarship. It was like the most incredible experience of my life.
00:07:29:25 – 00:08:02:09
And off the back of that that was like when I started sort of speaking about personal development because I was so passionate about it and believed so much in its power. I wanted to tell other people about it but people kept asking me to speak about Deliveroo and I was like Sure I’m happy to speak about Deliveroo, they’re a great company. They’re one of the most talked about companies in the UK fastest growing company in Europe. There’s lots to admire about Deliveroo. But what I thought was even more interesting than their growth story was what could we learn from their growth story and apply to ourselves so that we could grow like them.
00:08:02:22 – 00:08:21:11
And so that was where the concept of Bad ass Unicorn came around was what can we learn from these unicorn, billion dollar, privately owned, very aspirational companies that we as human beings can apply so that we can fulfil our potential just like them. So that was the birth of the Bad ass Unicorn.
Love it.
00:08:21:13 – 00:08:30:09
And you know what I never knew that you applied twice to the Marketing Academy. It just shows that you are walking talking proof of your own personal resilience.
00:08:31:04 – 00:09:02:07
Well I mean its Marketing Academy is really hard to get on to and a lot of people get on second time round, third time round. I think they are looking for marketers that are sort of in leadership positions as opposed to like people within the first five years of their career. So yeah anyone thinking of applying do 100 percent. I really couldn’t recommend anything more highly but also don’t be discouraged if you don’t get on first time round because it doesn’t mean that it’s not the right thing for you.
No, just the timing’s not right.
00:09:02:27 – 00:09:36:18
Yeah exactly.
Talk about resilience. I recently joined Alice’s webinar on resilience as I mentioned a passion point for me a skill, I believe marketers have to have possess in their day to day life you know and the challenging although fulfilling career in which we work. I would love for you to tell us a bit more about resilience why you think it’s so important for marketers and then perhaps if you could share the principle of the five pillars that you covered on the webinar that’d be great.
00:09:38:17 – 00:10:14:02
Absolutely. So when you first asked me this question I was reflecting on I don’t necessarily think resilience is a specific skill needed for marketers but for any other person in any other disciplines. I do think the interesting thing about marketers is that they’re responsible for the growth of a company. They’re responsible for sort of understanding that interaction with the customer. Looking at new growth strategies is an extremely important skill for everybody but particularly for marketers. But I mean the reality is that all the clichés that we hear around change are true.
00:10:14:04 – 00:10:25:23
The only thing that’s constant is change. You have to get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. My favourite quote is ‘You can’t control the waves, but you can learn to surf’. I think
00:10:27:13 – 00:10:59:22
the rate at which the world is changing is speeding up and so you know with the ascent of the A.I. machines we need that skill more than ever to not only just cope with what’s happening in present day life and Covid, is just an example, but also for future proofing ourselves and making sure that we’re adapting to future needs in the future way the world is going to look.
Yeah definitely, definitely.
The only thing that we can’t control is the extraneous factors that are happening to us in the world.
00:10:59:25 – 00:11:35:21
But the thing that we can and do have control over is our response to those changes and when we recognize that we have the power to define our destiny to tell our story to produce the narrative that we want to see things in the way that we want to see them. It’s an incredibly liberating thing because I could see for example me being made redundant at the cusp of what’s going to be the worst financial crisis in three hundred years as an absolute disaster. Or I can look at it with a growth mindset and say hang on, are Deliveroo just giving me a chunk of money to go and take my side hustle full time.
00:11:36:01 – 00:11:54:22
Well I know which one is a glass half full kind of attitude and the one that’s gonna be more conducive to positivity to constructively and to making this a positive and instead of a negative experience. We do really have a choice in the way we see things and what we do with that information as a starting point.
00:11:58:15 – 00:12:00:15
You wanted to talk a little bit more about the three pillars
00:12:00:22 – 00:12:15:00
The Five Pillars didn’t you.
Yes please. If you would. I just thought they were just a great overall summary of kind of how to improve you know a structured a tool that you could use to improve your resilience if you’re questioning whether that’s an area that you need to work on.
00:12:15:02 – 00:12:49:04
Yeah. So the five pillars of resilience that I talked about during the webinar are the following. So the first one is all about energy. So, what mental energy and physical energy do you have to be able to withstand the weather and the storms that come your way. So this looks like eating well sleeping well getting enough exercise. All of those things that contribute to having a healthy body and mind. And actually, the importance of getting a good eight hours sleep or the effect that the food that we eat can have on our mindset and brain capacity is it is really, really significant.
00:12:49:06 – 00:13:15:14
So that’s really about taking care of that side of things. Then it is all about strong relationships. So having that network of support of guides of your board of advisors who you can go to and either take a problem to them and ask for their advice or someone that can coach you into getting the answers that you need. I mean you were a brilliant advisor to me just a couple of weeks ago when you got me to think through what were the self-limiting beliefs that I had.
00:13:15:16 – 00:13:52:12
Well how could I overcome those and just having the different people in your circle and having a rich circle of diverse people that you can go to for different things is really really really crucial for us feeling like we’re not alone and we’ve got people who are helping us through the difficult times.
Definitely.
And I think I think for the most part certainly for me anyway if I were to get myself a score between one and five for each of these four pillars I think the strong relationships kind of for me has typically been one that I’m generally pretty good at. I feel very lucky to have a really great support system in my network is something that I actively look to nourish and build and I’m curious about so.
00:13:52:18 – 00:13:56:22
So yeah that’s always been an area that I sort of over indexed in I think.
00:13:56:24 – 00:14:38:19
And then we move into inner strength so inner strength is all about having self-belief. Understanding what our values are, in Bad ass Unicorn, you know can I call this knowing what our market and the gap is. Where do we stand out how do we shine. How do we add value because when we know what that thing is it gives us a huge amount of assurance and confidence in the value that we can bring to organizations into whatever we set our minds to. The next thing is what about flexible thinking. So that’s the fourth pillar and flexible thinking is really about making a decision about how you see a situation and not necessarily going down that sort of victim route or letting our chimp takeover or ego takeover but really trying to take a step back.
00:14:38:21 – 00:14:49:06
Put things into perspective and recognize the things that are within our circle of control the things that we can control like our own attitude our own habits et cetera et cetera.
00:14:49:11 – 00:15:24:18
And also accepting the things that we can’t control we can’t control what’s happening with Covid or climate change. What can I do to specifically influence any of those things within my capacity are the things that we should be focusing on as opposed to those big hairy scary things that are outside of our sphere of influence. And I really love the saying that the Serenity Prayer which actually is the Alcoholics Anonymous prayer which talks about give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change the courage to accept the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
00:15:24:22 – 00:15:29:10
And I think being able to disseminate information into what we can and can’t control
00:15:32:06 – 00:15:58:06
and then the last element. So when we know what our end stages see what we’re trying to build towards I think that makes all of the hard work and the toil and the strife much more easy to bear when we understand what our why is Nietzsche talked about ‘He who has a why can bear anyhow.’ And I think knowing what it is that you’re aiming for and why you’re doing that can give you a lot of strength. Definitely during the difficult moments particularly.
00:15:58:20 – 00:16:19:26
Yeah I couldn’t agree more. I think I think now I know taking the time to understand define your values for me personally has been absolutely life changing. It’s the filter for my decision making. It’s defined where I focus my time and energy. I think it’s actually what fuelled me on to go and train to be a coach to be honest tough. I just it was like this aha moment.
00:16:19:28 – 00:16:33:15
I felt like you were saying earlier that you want to share that that passion and the benefits of it. That’s had an impact in your life. So yeah absolutely couldn’t couldn’t agree more on the inner strength of values
00:16:35:05 – 00:16:36:24
So thank you for sharing that with us.
00:16:36:26 – 00:16:42:19
And what would you say like do you have like a set of four values or something.
00:16:42:28 – 00:16:54:13
So my values are growth so constantly learning new things and pushing myself out of my comfort zone to grow as a person. Connection.
00:16:54:25 – 00:17:26:16
So having open and honest relationships that connection with others where you can have that open and honest conversation, a bit like we’re having today is this is playing to my values very nicely both growth and connection. Generosity, so giving my time to people and buying you know gifts that put a smile on someone’s face but kind anything around generosity the ability to to give and it doesn’t just have to be tangible items. It’s also my time.
00:17:26:22 – 00:17:30:29
One of the things I’ve been doing during Covid-19 is actually setting up a preparing group.
00:17:31:01 – 00:18:01:15
So it’s been a group coaching session for people that use this time in a positive way flexible thinking how can I turn this around so if I think about all the times in my life where I’ve taken time out to think about what I want to do next or what my goals are whatever that may be it’s always been taking a break from work going away for the weekend you know compromise the family. This is the absolute golden opportunity to take the time to think about you know who are you. Who am I. What do I want.
00:18:02:05 – 00:18:05:12
What do I want out of life. Well who what are my values.
00:18:05:25 – 00:18:13:05
So generosity connection growth and my why is all about helping people.
00:18:13:10 – 00:18:28:28
It’s why I set up Labyrinth it’s why I get out of bed every morning and whether that’s helping the markets here to grow or helping the person behind the brand to grow or helping that person at their Crossroads decide what they want to do next. So yeah.
00:18:29:10 – 00:18:37:06
So moving on from values. Because we could talk all day could we not. About values and why they’re so important.
00:18:37:08 – 00:18:56:06
We could We could have shared a shared love of values a shared love of values.
I think the only thing I would say on values is I like to compare this to brands and brands having values. And I think particularly for people who are listening to this from a marketing point of view we all understand the value in having a good brand.
00:18:56:18 – 00:19:30:09
We understand why it’s good for brands to have a purpose and deliver against that purpose for as much of the time as possible. And we know that brands that have a strong brand and purpose outperform their competitors by an index of like 30 to 40 percent. And so I believe that us as human beings and individuals values are exactly the same as a brand having values and having a good personal brand is just like a brand having a good brand as a person when we understand our values when we understand what our personal brand is. It means that we’re able to know how we add value and know what makes us stand out.
00:19:30:11 – 00:20:05:00
And we’re able to deliver against that for as much of the time as possible. And we know what matters to us that we can be purposeful in the way in which we spend our time. But that’s for you being generous with the things that you’re doing or knowing that helping people gives you huge amount of satisfaction and enjoyment. And so I would just urge us to rethink the term personal brand away from being an icky thing that makes you want to be sick in your mouth because it feels very contrived and I don’t know showy and instead really think about it as a deep self-awareness of who we are what we want to bring to the world and how we add value.
00:20:06:27 – 00:20:07:27
I love that.
00:20:08:11 – 00:20:19:00
I think I’m definitely on that journey of trying to put positive connotation on personal branding and think of it as your values and not kind of how how you were so yourself.
00:20:19:02 – 00:20:35:22
So thank you so much for sharing those five pillars of resilience as we wrap up today it’d be great if you could almost impart, you’ve imparted so much already but impart your you know one top tip that you would like to give the marketers of today.
00:20:35:25 – 00:21:12:02
So I think the best tip that I was ever given was about this North Star. So it’s really about thinking what would my dream life look like in 10years-time and really start to visualize what that what that would look like in terms of what would you do for a job. So is there a dream company that you always wanted to work for or did you always want to start up by yourself or perhaps you’re working in marketing and you thought you know what, I really always dreamed of being an interior designer. So nothing is too farfetched at all. Really think about what that that north star might be, and you can also have sort of parallel North Stars or like alternative universes.
00:21:12:04 – 00:21:47:00
Okay one North Star I’d like to be a famous interior designer and the next one I want to be CEO of Deliveroo. And once you start to piece together what those North Stars are, you can start to also sort of trade off against each other with them or start to test them out. So let’s take that interior design example. If you’ve always had an interest in maybe being an interior designer but I’ve been working in marketing that say for the past 10 years. Well what could you do to really test that hypothesis. What would the minimal viable product be. Oh okay well I’m going to sign up to that course that I can do for the next six months and I’m going to really learn about what it would take to be an interior designer. I’m
00:21:47:02 – 00:22:19:20
I’m gonna go and work shadow somebody for a week in my holiday period and I’m going to offer to help my best friend who’s just bought a house to redecorate her apartment as a means of practicing. So hopefully that sort of translates how having that North star however audacious and different it might be to where you are now how that can then advise you about the different steps that you can take in your present life to help you either test out that hypothesis or to make tangible steps towards making that dream a reality.
00:22:19:22 – 00:22:25:23
Perfect. Thank you so much Alice. And thank you for your time today.
No problem at all.
00:22:26:00 – 00:22:34:27
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